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reading raw data..

(12 posts)

  1. robynanne

    member
    Joined: Mar '10
    Posts: 15

    Hi! I have to say I'm always so excited to exit from Nike+ after uploading my runs to come over here and see the run graph you make. It isn't perfect, but it is always MUCH closer to accurate. I was wondering, would you be interested in having data on what I actually ran to see if there were any ways to tweek the code you use to read the raw data to make it even more accurate? It may not be possible but I thought I'd offer just in case.

    Also, I don't suppose you get to be on the inside loop to hear when the next update to the sportsband code is planned and what fixes they are rolling out with that? (And mostly if/when they hope to roll out the 'snap to grid' fix?) Of course, they won't ever answer that question on their own forums when I ask.

    Posted 1 year ago #      

  2. rlerdorf

    senior admin
    Joined: Nov '08
    Posts: 257

    What do you mean by actual data? Measured by what?

    And no, they won't tell me anything on the Sportband problem either. I brought it up with them years ago when I first spotted odd-looking run data flowing in from the early Sportband users, but it is only recently that they have hinted at the fact that they recognize it as a problem.

    Posted 1 year ago #      

  3. robynanne

    member
    Joined: Mar '10
    Posts: 15

    Well, most of my runs are on treadmills. (I'm allergic to the world. Running outside right now might kill me.) I understand that they themselves may not be accurate but the consistancy part is. Thus, in my last run that was a little over 1 mile I gradually went up to 6.7 MPH and ran at that pace for the full run. My graph is way more random than that even here at slowgeek. Sometimes though, like on the 3 mile run yesterday, your slowgeek graph got the pace much more accurate in that it was constant for the whole run and just had short sections where I ran faster at the end of the miles. Like I said, it may not help... but it tugs at my brain a little about the math involved in why some graphs are flat even when my raw data is zig zagged and why some graphs zig and zag right along with the raw data.

    Also, a pox on those darn Nike people for not at least giving some information regarding the sportsband. That 5 mile run last weekend where I went 5.7 for a mile, 5.8, 5.9, 6.0, and the last mile at 6.1 should've been a great staircase in the graph but instead the whole run snapped to the same pace. I can handle bugs and fixes and needing time to make things work but I'd love an ETA or at least some clue that they are planning to do something about it.

    Posted 1 year ago #      

  4. rlerdorf

    senior admin
    Joined: Nov '08
    Posts: 257

    Yup, there isn't much that can be done to extract an accurate signal from the noisy data when that noisy data is filtered the way the Sportband does. The math involved tries to do its best using something called a LOWESS curve. It uses locally weighted polynomial regression where each point is derived by weighted least squares regression over the local span for that point. Basically it means that it tries to pick out the trend in the data. Noisy peaks or valleys will be smoothed out in the process. But, if all you have are the snap-to-grid Sportband style of values at just 2 or 3 levels, it becomes very difficult to graph the trend because that data still contains plenty of noise, so if you happen to snap to 3 peaks in a row, then suddenly you will be running faster according to the graph even though you didn't speed up. Same thing if you actually do speed up a little bit, but you keep getting snapped down to the closest Sportband acceptable value. Your signal is lost and you won't see that speed-up anywhere in the graph.

    Posted 1 year ago #      

  5. ATJ777

    senior member
    Joined: Sep '09
    Posts: 95

    What amazes me about Nike+ is they managed to get the likes of Paula Radcliffe and Lance Armstrong to record little grabs to be played in the iPod Touch/iPhone when you reach certain milestones but it appears they never consulted with any runners about the functions of the Nike+ system or the website.

    The website is next to useless if you are serious runner (and even if you run for fun) and want to be able to analyse how you are doing with your runs. It doesn't even display a simple thing like splits (even though it lets you take them using 'click').

    Posted 1 year ago #      

  6. rlerdorf

    senior admin
    Joined: Nov '08
    Posts: 257

    The web site was contracted out and there was obviously a bit of a mismatch there. The hardware, and even the firmware (aside from the Sportband piece of crap) is pretty nice. The recorded xml data is nice and detailed with both km and mile splits automatically recorded along with the custom-click events you mentioned. But yes, the web site is a complete disaster. There are some good ideas in there, like the challenges that motivate people.

    The problem is that the alternatives suck even worse. I had high hopes for the Adidas miCoach system. It has a great foot pod that is smaller than the Nike one, and comes with an attachment device that makes it easy to attach it to any shoe. Great start. But, the heart rate monitor barely works. After 3 attempts to get a valid "Assessment Run" completed, I gave up. Chaining the rather large Pacer doodad to my iPod is cumbersome and there is obviously no visual feedback since it has no screen, and the audio feedback is useless. The web site is ok, but there is no social challenge-like component and no forums or anything, so it feels lifeless since there is no way to interact with other users. And it uses annoyingly complex file formats and the SOAP protocol to communicate with the mothership. That part only annoys geeks like me though.

    I also have a Garmin Forerunner 305. I like the GPS accuracy, although it does lose track of the satellites sometimes and then tends to just assume you ran in a straight line from the last point of contact. I also like the heart rate monitor. It works way better than the Adidas one. I still don't like running with a monitor strapped around my chest though. It feels like I am wearing a tight bra. I run braless. And the workflow for actually getting a run uploaded and viewing it on the Garmin site is also annoying and lacks the social aspect that would bring the system to life. I also don't need a GPS to tell me where I am running. I know exactly where I am running. I just need pace and distance information when I am running. The slightly more accurate data from the GPS isn't worth the extra bulk ans hassle to me. I'm not training for the Olympics. If I am running 9.7km instead of 10km on my daily runs because the Nike+ is slightly off, nobody dies.

    I have all 3 systems sitting there on my table by the door and I can grab any one of them. I have the Adidas pod on my left shoe and the Nike one on my right. Since I always run with music, I am going to bring my ipod regardless of which system I choose, which means I only have to remember to plug in the little Nike receiver and I am good to go. Strapping on an uncomfortable bulky GPS watch and trying to navigate the cumbersome Adidas Pacer buttons and annoying audio feedback tends to make those systems stay on the table.

    Posted 1 year ago #      

  7. Jovisaru

    member
    Joined: Dec '08
    Posts: 21

    Nice running Gadget review.....!!

    .... And seems that it another gadget is going out soon: Apple has planned a heart-rate monitor to be linked with Ipod Nike+ . Just a rumour...?

    Posted 1 year ago #      

  8. rlerdorf

    senior admin
    Joined: Nov '08
    Posts: 257

    No, not a rumour. If you look at the raw run files, you can see that there has been a heart rate monitor section for almost 2 years now. No sign of it yet though.

    Posted 1 year ago #      

  9. RedStix

    new member
    Joined: Mar '10
    Posts: 1

    The most recent update to the Nike heart rate monitor is that it will be out on June 1st.

    Posted 1 year ago #      

  10. ATJ777

    senior member
    Joined: Sep '09
    Posts: 95

    From what I've read it will only work with the iPod Nano 5G.

    I wonder if it might work with iPod Touch/iPhone with OS 4.0.

    Posted 1 year ago #      

  11. FlopEJoe

    member
    Joined: Jan '10
    Posts: 11

    Seems odd if they couldn't get it to work with the touch or phone.

    "Featuring seamless compatibility with the Nike+ Sportband and 5th generation iPodĀ® nano"

    http://store.nike.com/index.jsp?sitesrc=uslp&country=US&lang_locale=en_US#l=shop,pdp,ctr-inline/cid-1/pid-351634

    Also: http://forums.nike.com/thread.jspa?threadID=30444

    Posted 1 year ago #      

  12. robynanne

    member
    Joined: Mar '10
    Posts: 15

    Looking at the raw date, it looks like they fixed the snapping bug... yes?? My band is no longer only estimating at values on the whole MPH marks and it is looking MUCH better. Oddly, I had surgery in May and hadn't used or plugged in (and thus hadn't gotten any code updates) that whole time so I don't understand how anything was changed on the band.

    Weird, but awesome anyway. Is this something others have noticed? The raw sportsband data is looking MUCH better.

    Posted 1 year ago #      

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